Carvers Knife

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Revolver vs Pistol

There is a lot of emotional debates and some very unusual mis-information being bandied about lately about whether or not Victoria Police will be converted to semi-automatic pistol.

This article is not going to attempt to justify whether or not Victoria Police must make changes, as the truth of the matter is that the Victoria Police IS converted into Pistols. Change would not be delayed any longer than it is to be to affect an appropriate training curriculum, and selecting the appropriate pistol.

In this article, my comparison the pistol is mainly focus on the Glock, as it is currently the sidearm used by police to the AFP, NSW, NT, QLD, TAS, WA, Australian Customs Service, and even some sections within the Victoria Police. There are other versions of the pistol in service with Australian Government organization, but the largest number by away is the Glock.

Although I can refer to comments made by CC Nixon, it is not a direct criticism of her, as a lot his comments are based on common misconceptions about the pistol. This is just a comparison of two weapons systems related to the frontline of Implementation Law.

My experience? I have used and trained both revolver and pistol since 1991. I have carried a sidearm almost daily since 1997, and participated in many advanced training courses sidearms.

I'm not an "expert", but I have relevant experience and qualifications on the same weapon systems.

History

 

Turret: The technology behind the turret is sometimes claimed to have been built to 1500's. This is not quite accurate. The "revolver" developed at that time was only a single shot weapon, which is also sometimes referred to as a "pistol".

The turret design right now, on a revolving cylinder containing the weapon by firing only a barrel, is attributed to Samuel Colt in 1836, which is when the patent was issued to him for design.

Pistol: Hiram Stevens Maxim, (the inventor of the mousetrap), invented the recoil mechanism used pistol today sometime between 1883 and 1885. Although he concentrated on developing the Vickers Machine Gun, its technology is the foundation for today's pistol. Perhaps one of the most prominent pistol now, the Colt 1911, was created by John Browning in the late 1890's Maxim technology and the exact same technology used pistol still successful by Police and Military today.

Both the revolver and pistol was developed from the original design of one-shot 1500's, and development of both arms is less than 50 years apart in the 1800's. When one considers the historical instances of technological advancement before the 1900's, a 50 year gap is insignificant.

Technology

Which is more likely to jam? If which is safer for users? A revolver or pistol? Let's look at how they operate.

 

Turret: The revolver is a basic design, there is no doubting that. The precise alignment of the firing pin, ammunition, and barrel, all controlled by the trigger. When you put pressure the trigger, springs and levers to pull the hammer back while Pawl one pushes on a ratchet to rotate the cylinder containing the ammunition in the area between the firing pin and barrel. While the levers and springs do their job, then everything works perfectly. The problem is, since the movement of the cylinder, there needs to be a certain amount of space between the frame of the revolver and the cylinder. It is fairly easy for dirt and grit to get into space that affect the precise alignment required to fire a round. Moreover, triggering unnecessary depressed action revolver. The hammer itself can be pulled back, either intentionally or by snagging on clothing etc when holstering, allowing things to fall into the gap. This will probably prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin, causing a faulty weapon.

Pistol: As stated previously, I will concentrate sa Glock pistol for this discussion. The Glock has no hammer. All the internal workings of the pistol was, and as such makes the system more protected from the elements. The training Australian Police use Glock system is to have a loaded weapon when carrying it. This means that no action needed to fire weapons other than just applying pressure finger on the trigger. The trigger itself is an important safety lever, meaning that nothing will activate the firing pin until the "safety trigger" has pressure applied to it.

The cycling of the action was caused by firing weapons. The recoil force of the blast slide straight back, which ejects the spent casing, and inserts the next round in the chamber. This is a straight line action, using the one spring and the recoil of the weapon. This design is used by a number of systems of arms since the 1890's, with some of the weapons are still used today by western militaries and police.

The main difference the simple firing a first shot between a revolver and Glock pistol is that the pressure required to fire the revolver is more necessary for the Glock, because of the pressure required to rotate the cylinder in place. This makes the correct sight alignment and going much easier than the Glock pistol, especially important first shot.

There were statements made that suggest that the Glock will fire when dropped on the ground. Well, Glock themselves have conducted thousands of "Drop test" over the years, and never once fired a Glock just from being dropped onto the ground. An internet search also failed to find any single verified incident of this happening. The internal Glock safety mechanism, combined with no hammer, making it physically impossible for a functioning ng Glock to fire until the trigger safety is depressed.

Turret on the other hand, are more susceptible to fire if dropped, due to the fact that the hammer can be activated separately from the trigger, and no hammer block safety mechanism from hitting the firing pin.

There is Police shooting incident themselves accidently when holstering the Glock. That is a fact. The reason for this is having your fingers inside the trigger guard when holstering the pistol. That is not a fault of the pistol, but the training regime given the Officers involved. The exact same incident could happen to someone holstering Victoria Police Smith & Wesson revolver, as it has no safety catch. Regardless of what these weapons …. If you pull the trigger, it fires.

However, one important aspect that needs to be recognized by users and trainers pistol is that stoppages would happen if the pistol shooter can not keep a firm and straight grip wrist while firing. I have seen even experienced shooters having stoppages every single shot, due to poor grip and loose wrists. This is not a "sin" of the pistol, but only a very simple procedure that needs to be recognized.

Motor Skills

A very quick explanation of "motor skills":

Gross Motor skills – Large muscle group: Walking, running, etc.

Fine motor skills – could be defined as requiring the use of fingers: Shooting.

Complex Motor skills – Multiple muscle groups and hand-eye coordination, writing etc.

It is a simple fact that the stress of being shot at or attacked by a man showing the deadly intent will cause damage to the complex motor skills first. If the stress increases, and then Your fine motor skills will deteriorate next, and finally your gross motor skills.

Revolver: Fine motor skills necessary to fire weapons, (drawing from the holster and pulling the trigger). Complex motor skills needed to reload, (opening cylinder, rotating forearm and pressing the ejection rod, looking at the cylinder, the cylinder and entering speedloader twisting, locking cylinder). It will also require removing your hand from the master arms, which is not a preferred thing to do when being shot at. Note that you HAVE to take your eyes off the threat to reload.

The immediate movement of the turret firing is not simply pulling the trigger.

If you are not able to count on your shots, which is normal during conflict, there is no indication that the revolver was empty, meaning you can waste precious seconds taking immediate action drill with no bullets.

Pistol: Fine motor skills required to fire the weapon, (drawing from the holster and pulling the trigger). Fine motor skills necessary to reload, (master hand weapons while thumb stays on the magazine hits releases, weak hand and rips to trickle out, grabs new magazine and inserts, then slide rack). No complicated motor skills involved, and the master hand stays on the weapon. With enough practice, the entire reload drill can be completed without looking at the weapon.

The immediate action of misfiring pistol is hitting the base of the magazine, racking the slide, and then pulling the trigger, (if necessary).

If you are not able to count on your shots, which is normal in combat, you know the pistol was empty when the slide locks back, saving valuable time analysis the status of your weapon's.

The main point here is that while reload the revolver requires removing from the master hand weapons, taking your eyes off these threats, and the use of complex motor skills, not the pistol. While the immediate action of the revolver is simpler than the pistol, reloading problem, (and recognition), the turret is far outweighs the benefit of the IA drill.

Tactical reload

The tactical reload is what I describe as needing to replace the expended bullet with fresh ammunition, without having fired all of your rounds. Think of having fired a few rounds with a threat, and then taking cover. You still with your arms rounds, but the threat still not been neutralized.

Turret: The only way of doing this successfully in a deadly threat environment by implementing a full reload, which where we have already shown requires the use of complex motor skills, removing your hand from the master arms, and taking your eyes off the threat.

Pistol: The tactical reload for a pistol is again, exactly the same as a normal reload, only the need of fine motor skills, keeping your master hand weapons, and the eyes of the threat. There is also a round still in the chamber, and the weapons may still also be fired even if you have not had time to load a magazine.

Bala Capacity

Turret: The current weapons used by Victoria Police holds 6 shots, with extra ammunition carried on speedloaders of 6 shots each.

Blast by: Dependant on the type of Glock choice. AFP, Tasmania and Australian Customs Service to use 9mm Glocks that come with 17-round magazine. The Glocks used by NSW, NT, QLD, & WA is .40 Caliber weapons, which come in 15-round magazine. Both systems enable a full magazine inserted, the arms actioned / load, and the magazine then "Topped up" with one more round, meaning that capacities of 18 rounds ammunition and 16 rounds respectively.

The issue at hand should not know or not a Police Force might be justified in carrying out 18 / 16 rounds in their weapons. The issue should be whether the frontline staff will require a better weapons systems than currently used. If the answer to that is yes, then the weapons capacity can be discussed afterwards.

However, the current thinking of some Police Police Managers do not have much ammunition, and that is a reason not to consider a pistol. disagree me. Although the current weapons laws in Australia, there are events this year alone as criminal firing up to 40 shots at home etc. If the criminal has access to semi-automatic weapons, they then have the ability to place a large number of rounds downrange with the Police.

But do the Police need to fire a large number of rounds in return?

Sa August 3, 1998, Rod Ansell shot two colleagues of mine, being Sgt Glen Huitson Jamie O'Brien and senior constable. Ansell was hiding behind a concrete pipe. Ansell after shooting a member of the public, and fatally shot Sgt Huitson, S / C O'Brien returned fire with his Remington 870 shotgun. He emptied the gun in Ansell's direction which has the effect of keeping Ansell's head down to S / C O'Brien could position itself in a better position of the fire. He then used his Glock to shoot Ansell once he was in a position of advantage.

I would bet vital part of my anatomy that come the time in the near future when a Victoria Police Officer is required to fire a threat only to avoid the threat firing back. It's called "cover fire". Providing cover fire with a revolver 6 shot is like throwing a pebble in a moving truck in an effort to stop it. This is not an effective way.

In 1995, two NSW Police Officers, being senior constables Addison and Spears, was ambushed and killed. The coroner recommended "that the suitability of the current arms Police Service has looked at and immediate attention given the supply issues and a self-loading weapon with a magazine. "

On 19 November 1995, the Honourable Elaine Nile quoted in NSW Police News August 1995 in the NSW Parliament, saying,

Geoff Beresford in the article put forward the arguments against the turret Smith and Wesson:

Some experts argued that semi-automatics should not be made general issues as they jammed and the average police officer does not keep them. They are also said to be semi-auto's should only be available to police specialists, such as SPG What they failed to tell us is that the semi-automatic pistol once they used failed after firing more than two thousand rounds without cleaning. Apparent that their arguments are not based on objective facts.

This is a test conducted in New South Wales. Regardless of what's happening in the royal commission, members of the Police Service should be well armed to protect themselves so that they have confidence when they fight criminals. The police department owes it to them.

On April 18, 1996, Mr Paul Whelan, the NSW Minister for Police, stated, "to reload the old revolver is a clumsy process that has too often proved fatal. "

What about Walsh Street in 1988? Victoria Tynan and Police Officers on constable Eyre test constable was murdered by up to 6 criminal intent on killing them. Or 10 years later when Victoria Police Sergeant Silk and Senior Officers Miller constable murdered 2 by criminals? It is a proven fact that the Victoria Police Officers will not only encounter single criminal. When an officer is faced with up 6 criminals trying to kill him, take six shots really seem enough?

Then we have the situation on May 13 this year when senior constable David McHenry and constable Adam McKenzie faces a criminal armed with a semi-automatic pistol in Melbourne. Luckily both survived Officers.

Thus, Victoria Police requires a weapon that can fire 16 or 18 shots before needing to be reloaded? I hope not. But as the saying goes, "It is better to have something and not need it, than need it and not have it. "

Convert the sidearms used by Victoria Police semi-automatic pistol can not happen overnight. The selection process for appropriate weapons unfortunately takes time. The creation of an appropriate training curriculum also takes time. Much of this can happen concurrently however, and should be done, to reduce the time taken to equip frontline of Victoria's Thin Blue Line with a more effective tool OSTT.

Keep pushing for the conversion, but use logic, not emotion. Use the system, not fight it.

Stay safe.

Doug Nicholson

About the Author

Doug Nicholson served for over 9 years with the Northern Territory Police Force, during which time he worked in remote Aboriginal Communities, was a General Duties Shift Supervisor at the busiest Station in the jurisdiction and became a qualified Workplace Assessor and Trainer. He has travelled to the US for advanced training, as well as worked in both Afghanistan and Iraq as a Security contractor, and is now studying for a degree in Security, Terrorism, and Counter-Terrorism. He is the editor for Response Australia eMagazine, an online publication for Policing in Australia.

Doug can be contacted at editor@responseaustralia.net

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